Consider below this portion of a transcript from the January 1997 Larry King interview with Mr. Graham – it is quite eye-opening, revealing Mr. Graham’s comfortableness with the Roman Catholic Church as well as other so-called “Christian groups” :
KING: What do you think of the other [churches] ... like Mormonism? Catholicism? Other faiths within the Christian concept?
GRAHAM: Oh, I think I have a wonderful fellowship with all of them. For example...
KING: You’re comfortable with Salt Lake City. You’re comfortable with the Vatican?
GRAHAM: I am very comfortable with the Vatican. I have been to see the Pope several times. In fact, the night — the day that he was inaugurated, made Pope, I was preaching in his cathedral in Krakow. I was his guest ... [and] when he was over here ... in Columbia, South Carolina ... he invited me on the platform to speak with him. I would give one talk, and he would give the other ... but I was two-thirds of the way to China...
KING: You like this Pope?
GRAHAM: I like him very much. ... He and I agree on almost everything.
SCHULLER: Tell me, what do you think is the future of Christianity?
GRAHAM: Well, Christianity and being a true believer--you know, I think there’s the Body of Christ. This comes from all the Christian groups around the world, outside the Christian groups. I think everybody that loves Christ, or knows Christ, whether they’re conscious of it or not, they’re members of the Body of Christ. And I don’t think that we’re going to see a great sweeping revival, that will turn the whole world to Christ at any time. I think James answered that, the Apostle James in the first council in Jerusalem, when he said that God’s purpose for this age is to call out a people for His name. And that’s what God is doing today, He’s calling people out of the world for His name, WHETHER THEY COME FROM THE MUSLIM WORLD, OR THE BUDDHIST WORLD, OR THE CHRISTIAN WORLD OR THE NON-BELIEVING WORLD, THEY ARE MEMBERS OF THE BODY OF CHRIST BECAUSE THEY’VE BEEN CALLED BY GOD. THEY MAY NOT EVEN KNOW THE NAME OF JESUS but they know in their hearts that they need something that they don’t have, and they turn to the only light that they have, and I think that they are saved, and that they’re going to be with us in heaven.
SCHULLER: What, what I hear you saying that it’s possible for Jesus Christ to come into human hearts and soul and life, even if they’ve been born in darkness and have never had exposure to the Bible. Is that a correct interpretation of what you’re saying?
GRAHAM: Yes, it is, because I believe that. I’ve met people in various parts of the world in tribal situations, that THEY HAVE NEVER SEEN A BIBLE OR HEARD ABOUT A BIBLE, AND NEVER HEARD OF JESUS, BUT THEY’VE BELIEVED IN THEIR HEARTS THAT THERE WAS A GOD, and they’ve tried to live a life that was quite apart from the surrounding community in which they lived.
SCHULLER: [trips over his tongue for a moment, his face beaming, then says] I I’m so thrilled to hear you say this. There’s a wideness in God’s mercy.
GRAHAM: There is. There definitely is...(Emphasis mine: from a television interview of Billy Graham by Robert Schuller, broadcast in southern California on Saturday, May 31, 1997).
In an other interview just a few days later, Mr. Graham speaks concerning his relationship with a prominent Roman Catholic – Fulton Sheen:
SCHULLER: You knew ... Fulton Sheen. You knew these men. Your comments on both of these men [Fulton Sheen (a prominent Roman Catholic) and Norman V. Peale (another self-esteem guru)].
GRAHAM: The primary way of communicating is to live the life, let people see that you’re living what you proclaim.... [comments on his friendship and conversations with Fulton Sheen] I lost a very dear friend, and since that time, the whole relationship between me and my work, and you and your work, and the Roman Catholic Church has changed. They open their arms to welcome us and we have the support of the Catholic
Church almost everywhere we go. And I think that we must come to the place where we keep our eyes on Jesus Christ, not on what denomination or what church or what group we belong to.(from a television interview of Billy Graham by
Robert Schuller, broadcast in southern California on Sunday, June 8, 1997).
Now, I do not share this information to incite anger and riots, but we must be clear on the essence of the gospel. I know that many of you had no idea that Billy Graham has said or espoused such things. Since the 1950’s Billy Graham has become more and more ecumenical, blurring the lines between genuine Protestantism and Roman Catholicism to the detriment of the gospel. Let us remember the Scriptures that warn:
Galatians 1:8
But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!
Beloved, this again is not posted to promote some kind of hate, but to encourage thoughtful consideration of the question, “What is the gospel?” And, upon having and adequate definition of the gospel, we might then rightly ask, “Is this what Mr. Graham has preached and espoused all these years?” To be sure, God is greater than Mr. Graham and many have come to faith through his preaching, but this does not mean that the fullness of his message is correct and without danger. Perhaps some of you readers out there have some more information?
Soli Deo Gloria,
Pastor Ed
4 comments:
A few points...
1. Not to be a smart alec, but many of the 'theologians' that I know all agree that in the last 15-20 years, Billy's lost his marbles. He's turned tail of several points of theology, and that happens when a guy gets old and his mind starts to go...I'm not sure how much of it is heresy and how much is alzheimers. I've seen footage of Billy preaching in the 50's, 60's and 70's and as far as I saw, he seemed to be pretty on target. After the mid 80's he started drifting...
...and no offense, but I'm guessing that by the time you're 90, I could compile a collection of quotes and sermons and interviews that YOU have had and make it look like you hold to probably ANY heresy.
2. I don't know how things are 'down there', but up here in Canada, Billy Graham is kinda like Alexander Graham Bell; everyone recognizes the name but people don't know much about him. Most people I talk to kmnow that Billy Graham is an evangelist who's preached the gospel to billions, and that's ALL they know. They don't know his theology, they don't know his story, they've never heard him preach and they've never read any of his books. For those reasons, I find it's better not to bring him up.
3. His comments about Roman Catholicism could be understood from a personal, not theological frame of mind. With many of the older individuals I know, they are more worried about the person and NOT the system of theology.
What I mean is that if I meet "Mr Smith", and Mr Smith is a nice guy and I later find out that he's a Catholic, I may say that I like Catholics. The parallelism of person and denomination is common with old timers...they also seem to do the same with ethnicity. I'd lay a wager that Billy knows very little about the theology and systematic framework of Catholicism. He's spent his life flying from city to city, talking about Jesus, and I'd bet dollars to donuts that he hasn't done much research on it.
Bottom line, be gracious and be cautious. Clarification of the gospel need not come with examples than border on slanderous. If I wasn't a Christian, I'd be less likely to listen to you if you were slamming someone whom I thought, albeit out of sheer ignorance, was a "good guy". Preach the truth and let others apply the measuring stick of truth to individuals.
Armchair (don't know the proper title by which to address you):
Thanks for your comments. I understand and appreciate your thoughts and, as stated in the post, I was not "slamming" on Billy Graham, but was calling for discernment. It does not matter whether it is Billy Graham or Ed Godfrey, everything is to be tested against God's Word.
With regard to what Mr. Graham has said in the past versus what he says today, I do not think that it is a matter of age. I think that in his older age he has become less careful. In an examination of his writings, contacts and theology there is a revealing of an ecumenical spirit that in the final analysis has compromised the gospel.
In his book, "Evangelicalism Divided," Mr. Iain Murray traces the roots of the ecumenical movement and Billy Graham's involvement in it. It would be a good read. Further, D. Martyn Lloyd Jones refused to participate in any of the Billy Graham crusades in the 50's and 60's because of what he saw as a compromise of the gospel. If Lloyd Jones had a concern, I think it is safe for me too as well.
I do not have an axe to grind with Billy Graham. I know that he is a man full of integrity and sincerity. However, this does not mean that what he teaches or espouses is to be received without scrutiny.
Soli Deo Gloria,
Pastor Ed
And in all reality, you're probably right...I don't doubt it. And you're probably right on the age thing too.
I'm just tired of people talking about him as if he, in ANY way, represents either Southern Baptists or American Evanglelicalism or any form of conservative protestantism in any way.
I don't really have concern for what Billy thinks about this or that...he's never been much of an authority, on any issue, in my life of the lives of anyone I know.
I would still stick with the idea of 'calling for discernment without using people as examples'...no wait. Paul did that. "Alexander the Metalworker". Okay...I'm a dope.
Pastor Ed,
No question, Evangelicalism Divided is right on and exposes much of Graham's work in watering down the gospel. I really have a hard time understanding how he has not taken steps of apostasy. He speaks of a "Christless eternity". Where is that in Scripture? Whether in Heaven or in Hell, men will be in the presence of Christ. The difference will be whethere they will be experiencing the glory of His grace or the glory of His wrath.
It seems that for the statements to come from him that are clearly documented, that he should stop preaching since those people don't even have to have heard of Christ. That is inclusivism if I have ever heard it. There comes a point when someone needs to take him aside and tell him that he simply needs to be quiet and repent, no matter how well respected he is.
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